[00:00:00] Jane: Welcome to Historical Happy Hour, the podcast that explores new and exciting historical fiction novels. I’m your host, Jane Healey, and in today’s episode, we welcome bestselling author Erika Roebuck to discuss her latest Prohibition era novel, The Last Twelve Miles, which Historical Novel Society praised as a tightly plotted thriller and an eye opening and compelling read.
Welcome, Erika. Thank you for doing this.
[00:00:28] Erika: Thank you. I’m so happy to finally be here. I’ve been admiring this from a distance. I’m so honored you invited me.
[00:00:34] Jane: Oh, I’m thrilled. I’m going to do a quick bio on you, although I think a lot of people here already know you, but and then I will dive into questions.
Eric Erobic, nationally best selling author of historical fiction, including Sisters of Night and Fog, The Invisible Woman, and Hemingway’s Girl. Her articles have appeared in Writer Unboxed, Crime Reads, and Writer’s Digest, and she has been named Maryland Writers Association Notable Writer of 2024.
Congratulations on that. That’s amazing. Thank you. Thank you. So I have to tell you, I when I saw the announcement, I think you posted the deal announcement on Instagram or something and publishes weekly for this book and I was like, Oh, that’s such a great premise. I was so thrilled with this idea.
So tell everyone. about the premise of this novel and the two women remarkable women at the center of it.
[00:01:22] Erika: Yeah, that’s the bottom line. It’s two women on two sides of the law in a game of cat and mouse, and both of the women are from history. They’re real women. This is a real woman’s story, and, but it’s relevant to the present day, just the, how you balance work, life motherhood, all of it.
And but these women are interesting because one of them was the first woman to train cryptanalysts and really help invent the science with her husband. And the other one became a notorious rum runner. So they’re very different, but they also have a lot in common. It was a joy to write the story and with the settings and it was a pure delight from start to finish.
[00:01:58] Jane: Yeah, and it totally comes through in the writing. I really loved at the beginning, you have notes at the end of the book and you have a note at the beginning of the book. I love all, I nerd out on all that stuff. Oh good. Totally. And I loved your note at the beginning of the book because I know of, as a historical fiction writer, I know of Elizabeth Friedman.
But you said when you were on tour for your last book, people said you should write about her. And I was like, that’s one of the reasons when I saw the announcement of this story. I was like, yes, finally, someone is writing a novel about this remarkable woman, so tell everyone about Her and her husband William and how amazing they were.
[00:02:33] Erika: I will this isn’t the author’s note But I will just point out it was three different people at three different places that told me I should write about elizabeth And i’m always just filing information But when the third one I got home with a basket she’d given me of goodies, which was so cute So nice and over the top the biography of Elizabeth Friedman that came out several years ago was in there.
And so I felt like, all right, I need to read this and I became completely enraptured with her. Her career really spanned the Great War through Prohibition, World War II and beyond. She and her husband were renaissance heroes. I guess you say Renaissance man or woman. They had a deep interest in Mayan culture and Shakespeare.
They were musical. They used to have dinner parties where you would have to figure out and decipher code to even know what date the dinner party was, to know which course you were on, and then it would It was really, they hung out with a lot of really smart people. All that is way beyond me, but they were just a captivating pair.
And I also loved writing about them because they had this, Oh, look at that. I know it’s so exciting. Cheers. I don’t
[00:03:33] Jane: know how I did that, but okay.
[00:03:36] Erika: They really supported each other. They would always say, Oh, he’s the better cryptanalyst. She’s the better cryptanalyst. And they had such a dear relationship and it was just a joy to be able to But because I had just written two World War Two novels, I needed a break from it.
It’s obviously a very intense time. So I really zeroed in on the prohibition aspects. Drinking settings are very lovely. And it was just, it was new. It felt very fresh. So I was able to do that. But I knew that Elizabeth had caught a female Axis spy in World War II, but I wanted to find a female Rum Runner and ask and you shall receive.
I found her. So it was it was a joy when I finally got her. And it was just enough of her story where I had a little bit of wiggle room and play room but there were enough bones there to make a novel out of it.
[00:04:23] Jane: Yeah, that was actually my next question, because it sounds like the rumrunner Marie Waite was, who was Elizabeth’s adversary in this, it sounds like she was more of a mythical figure, like there wasn’t as much out there about her, so talk a little bit about that.
Discovering her and what you learned.
[00:04:41] Erika: Yeah, so it was like following the trajectory that Elizabeth would follow. I was at the Coast Guard files. I see this boat she apprehended. I find the name of the man. I’m looking in newspapers from the 1920s. I see, I find his name in a dance academy and with it is his wife and it just says Mrs.
C. W. Waite. But when you look at the picture of the two of them, She totally steals the show in the picture because she’s not like a Mrs. C. W. Wade. I needed to know more about the woman who was glaring out from this picture. And so the more I dug in, that’s where I started to find all the lore. So you have a book about rum runners, or there’s maybe a paragraph about Spanish Marie, the infamous gun slinging wench, six feet tall.
Puts concrete blocks on her lover’s feet and it was just so over the top. And when I finally dug down and found her, it was little funny things. Like she was five feet tall and she had brown eyes, not blue eyes. But you can see how the lore gets spun up. Especially with the newspapers at the time where this was really, this was the click bait of the time.
And they used to play up the good guys and the bad guys, the cops and robbers. A lot of them were on the side of the rum runners against the feds so they would make a peter pan figure out of their robin hood figure excuse me so it was just a lot of hijinks and wild stuff that i could never have made up on my own
[00:05:59] Jane: Oh, yeah, totally.
Yeah, totally fascinating. To that point, you did extensive research from your, for this book. There’s a bibliography in the back. There’s notes. What’s your research process like? Do you do a bunch up front? Do you do it as you go? What’s your whole process like?
[00:06:15] Erika: Yeah, I try to spend about four to six months exclusively on research, and that entails reading everything I can get my hands on, from the internet, to biographies, to archives.
It’s such a beautiful time to be alive, because so many internet archives are now available from our homes. And then I try to go where I can do hands on research meet with people in the Coast Guard. For this one interview people in the Coast Guard. And then actually I got to the National Archives has all the Coast Guard records from the very beginning when basically it was Alexander Hamilton’s branch of the treasury, all the way up to the present what’s declassified to the present day, Elizabeth’s things have been largely declassified because they took place in the twenties, although not all of it.
But a lot, and a lot of our procedures are still used today for what she found. But when I was able to go through all of that at the National Archives, it was hugely helpful. Also, the Freedmen’s donated their papers to the George Marshall Library, which is outside the Virginia Military Institute. It was closed for renovations a lot of the time, but the archivist there was so helpful, so I could tell her, I need to find these documents or these photographs or these letters from this time and she would, Send them to me.
It’s a very much like that. And what I’m doing when I’m searching these archives is looking for the plot of the novel, because I’m not really actually very creative. I just need to find the high stakes. I need to find the climax and see where the character arc is going to be. And once I find that in history, then I’m off to the races.
So it all came together.
[00:07:40] Jane: Was there anything in the research that really surprised you along the way?
[00:07:45] Erika: Yeah, I was astonished actually by the amount of women in power positions. And so Elizabeth Friedman training cryptanalysts and being the first woman to head an intelligence unit in the U.
S. military Marie Waite she and Cleo Lithgow were two very high profile, notorious, successful rum runners who had their own Rings essentially. And then the assistant D. A. Of Miami was a woman who was also a pilot. And then the country, the whole country had Mabel Walker Willebrand in charge of prohibition, another lawyer.
So everywhere I looked, there were all these women in power positions. And I was absolutely fascinated and I loved it. So it was just that time. There weren’t a lot of women working outside of the home. And these women also had Children. They had marriages in many cases, and it was fascinating.
[00:08:31] Jane: It was fascinating, and that was one of the things that I kept having to remind myself that this was the 1920s and here are all these women having to ja balance like their home life and juggle motherhood.
And the push and pull, particularly Elizabeth, I think highlights the push and pull of motherhood and her work and her love of her work. But the interesting, I think you did a really good job because she had all this support, right? She had love in her life and a loving husband as opposed to Marie who was also super ambitious.
But was really pretty much on her own in terms of, she didn’t have that kind of infrastructure around.
[00:09:05] Erika: Yeah. She didn’t have the support systems that Elizabeth did. And so she had to make her own way. And for better or worse.
[00:09:12] Jane: Yeah, exactly. So these two women were real historical figures in history, and you’ve written about other real historical figures as your main protagonists.
Virginia Hall, in The Invisible Woman, in Violets of Bow, in Sisters of Night and Fog. What are the challenges about writing about a protagonist who’s a real figure in history, and do you have a preference for writing about real women in history as the main character, or fictional?
[00:09:38] Erika: I’ve really fallen in love with really bio historical fiction.
I like real women, real history, real things that happened. In previous novels, I’ve had more fiction or fictional protagonist to anchor the story. When I switched over, it was The House of Hawthorne because I had such a rich cast from history. I didn’t feel like I needed to add anything there. And ever since then, I’ve been moving forward.
Into a the bio fiction area of historical. I just love bringing these stories. Women these women’s stories to light, especially, but all of them and just understanding these fascinating places from history, with your work, it’s just it’s such a joy to discover it and then to share it with people.
[00:10:16] Jane: I totally agree. Yes. And now you’ve written novels that take place in the twenties and the thirties and the forties. Do you have a favorite era of those to write about at this point? Are you just go where the story is?
[00:10:28] Erika: I do go where the story is, but I do love the 20s. There was just something, and of course I’m romanticizing it from a hundred years out.
Even with the Rum Runners, I start when it’s toward the beginning to middle of Prohibition, where it all feels a little lighter, which is funny because it’s organized crime. There’s like murder and brutal things happen, but to me that felt lighter than World War II. And it really, at the end of The later part of the 20s, early 30s, it got very dark because organized crime so fully came in to consume the industry.
And then what happened there was these supply chains for drugs opened up, and then human trafficking, and the lines that opened up from these just what started as liquor continue to plague us to this day. So it becomes very serious very quickly. But I do, I’m fascinated by the 20s. I think it’s the glamour, the art deco, the music.
There’s just something about it.
[00:11:23] Jane: The clothes, the flapper dresses and yeah, all of that. Look
[00:11:27] Erika: at the clothes,
[00:11:28] Jane: Look at this.
[00:11:30] Erika: It was a joy to write this scene with this dress. Oh,
[00:11:32] Jane: yes, yeah. This book feels very cinematic to me, like you write in a very cinematic way, and like the settings, Key West, and Cuba, and, um, has it run any movie interest?
[00:11:44] Erika: Yes, I’ve had some little nibbles that have gone absolutely nowhere. And it’s the first time that it’s happened before a book came out for me. There’s been little nibbles that go nowhere all along, but these started before the book came out. So I thought, Oh, surely this will go somewhere. It hasn’t, but I definitely wrote it as a movie.
I wrote it at very short. I tried to make each one a very. Filmable scene. I did get told by one woman who works at a production company that books on the water are very hard and people are reluctant to take them on. But I’m like, really with AI and special effects and outer banks, like people can do it, yeah, so I, I do want this to be a movie. I cast my books. I try to, as I’m writing or before I write. So when I’ve I reach a sticky point or I can’t envision something, I’ll go on YouTube and watch. So for this one, I thought Emily Blunt would be the perfect Elizabeth Smith Friedman, almost the Mary Poppins vibes, where just somebody’s got it all together.
Or who appears to, let’s put it that way. And so I would watch her in different movies, even in Oppenheimer, just to watch how she moves. To inform Elizabeth. And then for Marie, I, it was, I, it changed throughout the writing, but for me, it settled on did you, have you seen Daisy Jones in the sixth? Camilla Maroon, the wife, oh, got it. Yeah, she can really bring a lot of layers to me. So
[00:13:03] Jane: yeah, I have a couple of suggestions as well. Yes, give me them. I was thinking I was picturing Amy Adams as Elizabeth. Oh,
[00:13:11] Erika: she would be so good. Yes,
[00:13:13] Jane: love her. And then For Marie, I thought of Jenny Ortega or Selena Gomez. Because she’s really
[00:13:19] Erika: good.
They would be all stellar. Perfect. Yeah.
[00:13:25] Jane: So if any movie people are listening, that’s, some suggestions. Very open. I have so I, there are questions that I always ask about like writing life, author life. And then I will take some questions from the audience. Everyone put questions in the chat or put questions in the Q& A that I will ask after I write, I ask these ones.
So your writing process, you talked about your research process. What is your writing process like? Are you a plotter? Are you a panther? Are you somewhere in between? Like, how do you do it? I
[00:13:58] Erika: do. I sit here at this desk and I have all of my you can’t see it, but it’s basically an altar with all the pictures, the people I’m writing about looking at me, got my little candles, the whole thing incense, whatever.
And I try to write in the mornings, usually from Eight to 12 or nine to one. And then my brain typically shuts off after four hours. I’m a planter. So I timeline, I don’t outline. So I get all of the historical time period set. And then I build my, like use Freytag’s pyramid to build the rising action up to the climax from that.
That’s all set up. And then I operate with more freedom once I start going, but I do have the dates of everything that I know is going to happen.
[00:14:38] Jane: Okay. Interesting. Do you put, it’s so funny you say four hours, because I feel like that’s when I hit a wall too. Like I, I can’t do more than four and maybe I’ll take a break and try to do a little more later in the day, but four hours is like all I’ve got in the tank.
Yeah.
[00:14:54] Erika: Especially writing from the blank page. Editing is easier for me. It’s a different muscle that I can dip in and out of, but with the concentration, the blank page requires almost like a method acting. I need Yeah, uninterrupted time. And all I’ve got is the four hours. And then I just.
[00:15:10] Jane: Yeah, that’s it for the first draft. It just requires so much focus and concentration. I feel like it’s just, yeah, you can only do so much at one time. Let’s see. Oh, how do you strike a balance between fact and fiction in your storytelling? And do you have any strict rules that you adhere to?
[00:15:28] Erika: I let the story do what it is.
I do write novels and not biography. So I’m gentle on myself with that, but I do confess all my sins against history and the author’s note. So whatever I decide, I do consolidate characters. So for the coast guard, for example, there’s a different crew on every single cutter that she goes on. And in different regions, you would have all these different people and that would become too cumbersome.
So I really just made a focus point of one real guy from history and one composite. And so I. I have to do that sometimes just for the ease of character. With the World War II books where I’d be writing about different resistance networks, there would be, 40 people in each region that they would work with.
So that’s something that I have to do. But I do try to stay as faithful to events in history as possible. I really I want people to go Google things. And when they do what I want them to find what I’ve told them, and I want it to be correct, but then also take them deeper. So I do try to stay as faithful as possible.
[00:16:23] Jane: Yeah. Yeah. Totally agree. I know there are some aspiring authors in the audience and you’ve published a number of books. You’ve been at this while successfully, what’s the best advice you can give about writing and about giving getting published? And I know those are two very different things.
[00:16:40] Erika: Yeah, I about writing.
It’s write every day and keep writing and write the next book. It’s not about one book. It’s about, it’s not a sprint. It’s a marathon. So I, it’s, it is all about what are you working on now? What are you working on now? And that drives people crazy, but it, there has to be more than Oh, I’ve written this one book and it took me 10 years and it’s my whole heart and soul.
So I think in the business, you just have to let that go. The first book does take a long time and it is your heart and soul. As soon as you’re sending that out, you should be working on something else. Just to even take the pressure off of that and anything to do with it. With publishing, I self published my first book after I got a unanimous rejection from every single agent I sent it to.
And there were probably a hundred of them. And they kept saying to me, you don’t have a platform. You don’t have reviews. You don’t have a website. So I used that book to do it all. met with book clubs, got reviews, went to different fairs and festivals. And then I wrote Hemingway’s Girl, which ended up getting a traditional publishing contract, but it hasn’t all been a straight line since then.
I’ve been, I was with New American Library, which got shut down. And then I was with Berkeley. I self published a hockey book. That was a satire because that didn’t match my brand and nobody wanted it. And that was more of an exorcism anyway. And then I went. And I have a new editor at source books now.
So it’s not like it’s a straight line and Oh, once you get one or two books published, it’s just easy after that. No, it’s like every book calls for something new and it’s an adventure, but don’t make them each so precious. That’s what I would say. And I know that’s good. That’s good advice too.
[00:18:16] Jane: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:18:17] Erika: If you’re writing fiction. Now, if you have a memoir or something like that’s a totally different story. But yeah, for fiction, it’s yeah, you got to keep writing more and more.
[00:18:25] Jane: Yeah, I agree. And I, and you’re right to talking about the, it’s a, it is a twisty and turn, twisty path in terms of publishing.
You get that first book out and it’s not like everything, like you said, it’s this upward trajectory and we were talking about changing editors. I’ve got a new editor for the first time in years. And yeah, you just got to go with the flow in this industry. Or it’ll kill you.
[00:18:48] Erika: Or it will kill you.
And I do think with as many books as they try to get us to pump out, they are trying to kill us. And then it will make our work more valuable. Yeah, there
[00:18:56] Jane: you go. So you talked about the cover. I love the cover. I love the dress. I remember the scene. Do you have much say in covers? Or did your editor, do they let you have some input or do they just say, Oh, here’s your cover?
[00:19:09] Erika: They gave me, they asked me what I thought, and then they gave me a bunch of things that were nothing like what I thought, which is probably for the best. Let’s, Be real here. But the ones they originally gave and this is everywhere. This is not just this one We’re almost like are you serious?
So I have veto power and I used it They went back to the drawing board. Thank goodness. And then what they came up with was spectacular we were basically tinkering with a dress at that point but and it turned out so much more beautifully than I could have imagined But I do one of these days want to show you the evolution.
Do you have I mean with You It’s for me, it’s mostly veto power. It’s not necessarily creative power. How about you with your covers?
[00:19:49] Jane: Yeah, it’s veto power. The last book I was like, I don’t care, I don’t I was I what It was called good night from paris and i’m like I just don’t want a big fat eiffel tower on it because there’s so many eiffel tower books And the first versions they gave me were all like, big fat Eiffel Tower big. The Eiffel
[00:20:04] Erika: Tower can sell a book, it can sell a book. That’s
[00:20:06] Jane: what, yeah, that’s what they told me. So
[00:20:08] Erika: They can sell everything. I was in an antique market today and I saw an Eiffel Tower lamp, and I was like, Ooh, do I need that need? I’m like, I need that.
[00:20:15] Jane: Yeah they, Eiffel Towers move books, but but yeah, so I have veto power.
I have a little bit of here’s what I was thinking, but I’ve, I’m certainly not the last word on it yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s and I do
[00:20:27] Erika: start sometimes get them saying to me we have to go to catalog soon. We can’t tweak anymore So it’s
[00:20:32] Jane: Okay Yeah, that’s what happened with this last one too.
Like we got to actually pick one and be done. So yeah What are you gonna do? What are you gonna speaking of? So what are you working on now? I know you can’t like totally officially announce but talk about your next project
[00:20:46] Erika: Yes, I asked my editor and she said I’m not allowed to say it yet. I will tell you it’s another phenomenal woman from the shadows of history, and a story that’s so epic I couldn’t have made it up if I tried.
She’s an absolute delight. It takes place in the 50s and 60s, so that will be I’m covering a little bit of new territory and I just, I can’t wait to share it with you, but I’m not allowed to. I’m waiting on edits to come back for that book, too. I would imagine once I get through that we’ll be able to say more
[00:21:12] Jane: about it out.
Excellent. Congratulations. That’s awesome. Okay, so questions from the audience. Let’s see. Um, how did. Oh, let’s see. I would. Oh, I think it’s pronounced I live it. I think she’s from Australia, and she would like to know what plotting devices you use. Is there a certain tool approach that helps you plot the story.
Thank you. That’s a great, that’s a good question.
[00:21:35] Erika: That’s a great question. And I use a whole mishmash, as I said, I start with a timeline, but I’m really, I’m wedded to Freytag’s Pyramid, which is your inciting moment, rising action, climax, falling action, dynamo. I just think it’s such a nice structure. I do try to keep in mind the hero’s journey a lot, or the three act structure with screenplay, because it also provides nice pillars for your writing.
So I really mash everything together but Freytag’s Pyramid to me is usually my guide for how I set up.
[00:22:05] Jane: Oh, interesting. Yeah, I, this last time I was trying to use The Hero’s Journey and also for the first time, Save the Cat. Yeah. The Beachy. Yeah, so that was also helpful. They’re all they all have overlap, yeah.
Yeah. That’s all there’s
[00:22:19] Erika: another there’s a book. I have to remember the name of it. Oh gosh I’m gonna have to look it up, but she talks to you about what does your character want? What are some things that are going to prevent it? I’ve got to look this up, but it’s a really quick and easy Five part story structure.
So it is just incorporating all these things. I’ve learned over the years.
[00:22:38] Jane: Yeah, and that’s one thing I tell Newer fiction writers to that. I wish I had known earlier is like You to pay attention to structure or front and you’ll save yourself a lot of suffering down the road. Yeah. So let’s see other questions.
Oh, do you have any other locate tour locations coming up? Jackie asks,
[00:22:59] Erika: For Jackie, I don’t, if the book becomes a wild bestseller, then they’ll send me back out on the road. I’m still waiting for that to happen, but it’s only been four weeks. So I’m trying to get paid. Yeah, I’ve got a signing at Barnes and Noble in Georgetown in D.
C. that’s opening up in August and then I’ll be at a Colorado Writers Festival in October but those are the rest of my events for
now.
[00:23:19] Jane: What, Sharon asks, what’s your favorite historical novel you have ever read?
[00:23:24] Erika: I always come back to Possession by A. S. Byatt. That to me was a groundbreaking book.
It was dual period. It was just, it was one of those books I’d asked a college professor, who’s going to be a classic who’s a contemporary historical writer who will be a classic and she said A. S. Byatt. So I’ve read everything A. S. Byatt has written. So she was my gateway drug into historical fiction, along with Toni Morrison and Beloved and Tracy Chevalier, The Pearl Earring.
However, moving forward now, I’ve become obsessed with Hilary Mantel and Wolf Hall and and Hamnet. Maggie, Maggie O’Farrell, those women write these meaty historical novels that are really literary and intense, and that would be just they are very inspiring to me.
[00:24:08] Jane: Yeah, they’re beautiful writers, my god, yeah I’m reading or actually more listening to James by Percival Everett.
Oh, yes, Mark Twain retelling Huck Finn. Yes, but from, yeah, from Jim’s perspective, and it’s, So beautifully done. Just brilliant book. Oh, I
[00:24:26] Erika: love that. I
[00:24:27] Jane: recommend that. That’s my latest that I’m really into. Oh, Sharon also asked, Can you recommend an independent bookstore where I could order a signed copy of The Last Twelve Miles?
I just loved it and I want to own a copy.
[00:24:39] Erika: Oh, thank you. I love that. Yes. A likely story. I did my pre order campaign. So they have, I signed tons of stock for them. And Bethany beach books. I signed a ton of stock for them the last time I was there. So either one I’m pretty sure fountain in Virginia probably has some left.
Yeah. Any of the Indies that I went to, I did sign stock for and I think the one down I’ve got some hard covers and some paperbacks. There was a hard cover down in Florida. Yeah. I’m blanking right now. Tallahassee, Midtown Reader. They had me sign hardcovers. So if there are any left and you want that kind of book, it’s there.
[00:25:12] Jane: Oh, excellent. What are you reading right now?
[00:25:16] Erika: It’s actually right on my desk right now. I’m coming to the end of it. Madness. By Antonia Hilton. It’s about Crownsville Hospital, which this is like a Jim Crow asylum and it is really hard to read, but I live three miles from Crownsville. My grandmother was a psychiatric nurse there.
My grandfather was a mechanic. My dad worked in the cafeteria. So I’ve lived literally and figuratively in the shadow of that mental hospital my whole life. And of course, My experience and my family’s experience was totally different as white Americans than many of the people who were there and who had, who built it.
And it’s a powerful, important book. And I had been putting it off because I thought it was going to be gut wrenching. It’s hard, but it’s moving. It’s really powerful. It’s one of the best books I’ve read this summer. So I definitely recommend it.
[00:26:04] Jane: Wow, okay. Have you always wanted to be a writer?
Did you always want to write fiction? Was that like your plan from like when you were really young or was that kind of a later on plan?
[00:26:14] Erika: I have a dual, I have two things I do, write and teach. And I’m always doing each in some capacity. I’ve always written. My first play I have from when I was seven years old, I always kept diaries, notebooks, journals, poetry songs, angsty novels.
So that’s where the progression went. Even a little bit of short story thrown in there. But, and that’s, Writing, I’m in my head all the time. So for teaching I’m out of my head and I’ve taught everything from pre kindergarteners and I’ve subbed all the way up through high school. The older I go, the more I tend to like it.
So I think I would end up, if I went. Back to teaching full time ever. It would probably be in the high school, maybe even the middle school though. I like middle schoolers, which was a shock to me. My sons, I have three sons. My oldest just graduated college. My second son is in college. My third son is going to be a junior in high school.
So once he goes to college, I’ll probably return to the classroom more regularly, just so I’m not in my head all the time I need to have. Human interaction to
[00:27:13] Jane: a balance. I know my mom was an English teacher for middle school and she said, it’s like the most rewarding age. Yeah. Yeah. And they come out with, in terms of writing and journaling and all that, she might even be on this.
She watched the webinars. So yeah. Yeah.
[00:27:29] Erika: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve been just subbing now because it’s all I have time for, but I can see when all the kids are gone maybe doing more than that. We’ll see.
[00:27:36] Jane: Yeah. See how it goes. Okay. Any more questions here? Oh, who would you choose to play Edna St.
Vincent Millay? That’s a question. Fallen
[00:27:47] Erika: Beauty. That’s years ago. I don’t have my glasses on, so I can’t even see who’s reading these. I should put them on. I bet that’s Tricosa. Is that Tricosa? Judy Branco. Judy. Oh, Judy. Yeah. I don’t know. I have to think about that. Edna St. Vincent Millay. She would have to be a saucy lady.
She’d be a little bit wild. Maybe Florence Pugh. Oh, that would be good. Yeah, she’s got the edge I think that character would need she does she’s got sass.
[00:28:20] Jane: Yeah. Yeah She would be good let me see if i’ve missed anything. I feel oh, what’s your favorite world war ii novel?
[00:28:28] Erika: Oh gosh
[00:28:29] Jane: I don’t even
[00:28:30] Erika: know that’s like asking my favorite child.
I love them Yeah. I guess I’ll have to say the Nightingale, just
[00:28:38] Jane: because it really
[00:28:40] Erika: opened the door to that for me. But there’ve been so many excellent novels since then. I love Jennifer Robeson’s novels are set in Italy, which is yeah, Pam Jenoff, Alison Richman. I, there’s just no end. I could go on and on.
Yeah.
[00:28:53] Jane: Oh, same here. I know. Yeah. Pam’s amazing. Oh
[00:28:57] Erika: yeah. There’s just,
[00:28:59] Jane: Yeah.
[00:29:00] Erika: And I think every other book I read is set in World War II and I always learn something new and it’s always new. Kelly Bowen, I just read one that came out. The titles, oh, I’m like blanking here. I’m showing my age, but her most recent was fabulous and the girl, woman starts out as a race car driver in France and ends up becoming a driver for generals in North Africa.
Just great stuff.
[00:29:21] Jane: Yeah, there’s so many good ones, and I keep thinking is World War II gonna fade in terms of the the genre and the era and yet I still see great books are coming out all the time. Lisa Barr just came out with a new one. She was, Lisa Barr, yes. Yeah, so many good ones, and I’m like, You know I think I was talking to Kate Thompson, she’s a British author, yesterday about like the World War II genre and is it going away and I think part of it is we’re losing that generation now and so there I think if anything it’s getting more Attention right now.
Like I feel like we’re, they just had the, the D-Day celebrations and Oh yeah. It was so moving.
[00:29:57] Erika: Yeah. Yeah. And then just the war was fought all over the world, so there’s endless places you can come at it from. I really don’t think, I don’t think it’s gonna be an exhausted genre.
I think it’s just personally, I need to come up for air between them. But then I go back in
[00:30:11] Jane: so every time I that’s what I felt too at the last one. It’s just it is such a heavy, heavy time in history and you just after two and two in a row. I was like, yeah, I think I need a breather to move on.
Even just a few years. My next one starts in 48. Not too far along. Yeah.
I think that is all. Oh, okay. A couple more here. How do you face rejection when querying your books? Have you ever doubted your writing? This is from Louisa Sotillo. You can take that first and then I have thoughts as well. No, you take it first. You take it first. Yeah, I have many things. Yeah, so you said your first one, my first novel took me, like in the, I wrote it very much in the fringes of my life and it took me 10 years and I stopped, I gave up after 70 plus rejections, probably more than that, honestly.
Oh yeah. I put it on a shelf and I had huge self doubt and I think even now at this I have self doubt sometimes and you’re like, By yourself in your head before I was at the library and you’re like, what am I even doing? So what am
[00:31:14] Erika: I doing?
[00:31:14] Jane: I say it all the time. What am I doing? What am I doing? It’s an affliction.
I can’t stop. Oh, it’s hard. But then I’m like, is that, I think having a little bit of like approaching it humbly, like being humble and approaching it with a little bit of self doubt or self editing is good, but like you can get paralyzed by that as well. There’s a balance there.
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:31:36] Erika: Oh, it’s such a head game. And then of course I read every review.
[00:31:40] Jane: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I do. Yeah,
[00:31:43] Erika: I internalize a lot of them. Most of them I can shrug off, but there’s that there’ll be those ones that every time you sit down to write, it’ll just be sticking in your brain. Yeah, it is a constant battle.
Some days are better than others.
[00:31:54] Jane: Yeah, Yeah, I stay away from Goodreads, generally speaking, because I feel like that’s for readers, so I don’t read those reviews but I can’t help myself sometimes, I have to read on Amazon and stuff, and my husband reads all of them so he’ll flag some that are really good or
[00:32:09] Erika: bad, yeah. My husband does too. He gets more upset about them than I do, like the negative ones. And I’m just like, it’s not personal. Although I do find it very odd when someone tags you in a bad review.
[00:32:22] Jane: Yeah. Oh my gosh. That’s an
[00:32:25] Erika: interesting one.
[00:32:27] Jane: I think that’s such a faux pas, do not tag. It’s okay if you don’t like the book. But don’t tag me and tell me. I know
[00:32:37] Erika: it’s it’s your trap. Did you can’t say anything, but you’re just like, wow, it takes a really special kind of person to do that. They must’ve had a miserable childhood. Move on.
[00:32:50] Jane: Honestly, it’s, I just, I don’t understand, but but so Louisa back to your point.
Yes. I how did we face, I faced rejection. I think, What you said you decided, you faced rejection with your first book, and you self published, and I faced rejection, I put it on a shelf, and then I And I kept writing and went back out a year or two later and pitched it again. And I think publishing is perseverance in the face of,
Of no’s.
And it just takes one open door, one yes, to, yeah. So
[00:33:18] Erika: it’s not no forever. You put the novel in a drawer and you move on, but timing is important too. So things happen. And I do trust timing and trust. readership and that things will find the readers they’re meant to. You just have to.
[00:33:32] Jane: I think that’s very true. Luck, a little bit of luck, but definitely timing and also just not taking yourself out of the game. I think that’s one thing you just, I almost did a couple times. I always tell you, I was at a conference and I had my first novel is Saturday Evening Girls Club.
I had, I submitted them to be critiqued by a panel like anonymously. I don’t know if you’ve ever done this, and it was in front of 200 people and they critiqued my first pages and they like trashed them. They trashed . I like called my husband crying from a bathroom. I’m like, I, what am I even doing? I, what am I doing?
I’m not doing, , was there anything that was helpful because there
[00:34:11] Erika: were sometimes
[00:34:12] Jane: very
[00:34:12] Erika: helpful. I will say that.
[00:34:14] Jane: It was, and in the end after I talked myself off the lid, my husband talked myself off, yeah, it just made me realize oh, I thought I was, this was ready and it’s not ready yet, and that’s okay, yeah, it just, you get there.
But but yeah, you just got to persist and find your, your crew, your writing friends to support you. I think that’s big too, like writers groups and things like that. Yeah, really big. Is the book you were referring to, Tomorrow is for the Brave, by Kelly Bowen? That’s the one,
[00:34:45] Erika: thank
[00:34:46] Jane: you. Yes. I remember that too.
[00:34:49] Erika: I could not put that book down.
[00:34:50] Jane: And that was a race car driver
[00:34:52] Erika: one? The woman starts out driving, yeah. She’s a driver, so that was a cool different take. She was inspired by a real woman. It’s not the real woman’s story, but just of a woman who drove,
[00:35:04] Jane: amazing. Amazing. So how, what is the best way for readers to stay in touch with you again before we sign off?
[00:35:11] Erika: Facebook and Instagram are where I spend, where I interact most of course my website has email and all that, but just for, I do a lot of book recommendations mostly historical fiction and good historical conversations. So that’s where Facebook and Instagram is where I usually am.
[00:35:28] Jane: And do you ever Zoom with book clubs?
I know sometimes I get that question from people do you do you Zoom in to book clubs around? Sometimes, yeah, I do.
[00:35:37] Erika: I do. Sometimes, I usually actually go to a number of book clubs in person that are left over from my self publishing days. Here and there I do Zoom.
[00:35:44] Jane: That’s so nice that you’ve had them, that they’ve stayed with you all along.
I have a couple of clubs like that and they’re the best. They’re the best. Yeah. Yeah, I
[00:35:51] Erika: just look forward to going there and, yeah. Yeah,
[00:35:53] Jane: it’s, they’re friends now. Yeah, it’s so nice. Yeah. So this was so lovely and I loved this book and I’m so happy for you and I just hope that it soars. I know it’s only been four weeks and it’s just, it’s terrific.
The premise is great. These women are fascinating. So I wish you so much luck and thank you so much for coming on tonight.
[00:36:14] Erika: Thank you. I was, I loved being here. It was great talk. Thank you all.
[00:36:17] Jane: Yeah. Thank you so much. And thank you everyone for coming tonight. Next week is Marjan Kamali. Yeah, she’s a friend, she lives close by and so you can register for that one on my website.
But thank you again, Erica. This was terrific. It was so nice to finally chat with you. Take care. You’re
[00:36:32] Erika: welcome. Have a great day.
